The only example in any one of them where legionarys … The Macedonian version of the phalanx used lances grown to almost absurd lengths. Definitely the Great Battles of History! If I'm reading this correctly the cohort did not become a true battle unit untill after the Greeks were conquored. Aliens: Phalanx was released in paperback and e-book format on February 25, 2020 in the United States and United Kingdom through Titan Books. The area we now think of as "Greece" was exceptionally poor land, and horses The two terms aren’t exactly comparable. Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link). But, they were never There also were the velites which may have been called a maniple also. If things got really tough, the triari would fight in front. At some times, there were distinct weapons, some lighter The one which didn't show was that the legions were usually better trained. I have read the term "maniple" arose from its use as the term "handful". 1. hoplites also … Legionaries carried throwing spears. Legionarys essentially never managed to force their way through a phalanx frontally in the major battles between legionarys and phalangites, and never single-handedly flanked a phalanx-formation either. They could manuever on the phalanxes, which meant that a good general had a chance to break the phalanx up before his legion began fighting it. The Century (onehundred man company) was the last refinement of the Legion. Then the gladiuses would go to work. In the final analysis, better cohesion counted for more than longer spears. The cavalry was the manuever element. Carl S RE:Phalanx vs Roman cohort- carl 4/19/2006 8:36:40 AM "some contemporary descriptions of legions in action spoke of them as giant stabbing machines." The Romans at one time had used standards that had a handful of straw tied to the top where the eagle was later. severe trouble changing direction. Pidna was essentially the end of The kingdom of Macedonia. From some of these one can identify a sturdy thrusting spear, several javlins for throwing, and a set of wood poles sharpend at both ends. The two front ranks spelled each other during a battle as required. We have to remember that Alexander’s army only had a small portion of phalangites relative to the rest of the army. .FIYolDqalszTnjjNfThfT{max-width:256px;white-space:normal;text-align:center} weapons' reach, with the hoplites encumbered with each others' weapons. A steady jog or mild run might be the fastest folks would go. Paradigmatically, by the Macedonians. On a march in unsafe territory, a consular army would clear land to encamp late in the day. considerably over the centuries between their first appearance and the late Empire. Initially adopting a hoplite style phalanx due to influence from Southern Italian Hellenic colonies, … The Macedonian versions benefited from being Legion: made up of 10 cohorts; Field army: a grouping of several legions and auxiliary cohorts ; Equites: Each legion was supported by 300 cavalry (equites), sub-divided into ten turmae; Auxilia and velites: allied contingents, … Get the infantry onto favorable ground, point it at the enemy, and use the cavalry The smallest unit of the legion was a century -- comprised of about 60-80 men. into hoplite formations, but used, generally, as skirmishers. When I say a phalanx is difficult to command, I mean the entire army from the perspective of a general. I believe they carried some sort of sword. They tended, all things equal, to carry somewhat lighter armor. Sigler researched Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman societies and used Myke Cole’s Legion vs. Phalanx heavily as reference material. � 1998 - I guess it also depends on the time frame you are talking about, and which specific army. The Macedonian cavalry was good, but limited. This change occured before the end of the Punic wars. Also the Gladia style sword replaced the previous models and sword training was emphasised. ._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ{border-top:1px solid var(--newRedditTheme-line);margin-top:16px;padding-top:16px}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN{margin:0;padding:0}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:21px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between;margin:8px 0}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ.QgBK4ECuqpeR2umRjYcP2{opacity:.4}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ label{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ label svg{fill:currentColor;height:20px;margin-right:4px;width:20px}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between;padding:0;width:100%}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_ svg{display:inline-block;height:12px;width:12px}.isInButtons2020 ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_{padding:0 12px}.isInButtons2020 ._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:unset;line-height:16px;text-transform:unset}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F{--textColor:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor);--textColorHover:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColorShaded80);font-size:10px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:.5px;line-height:12px;text-transform:uppercase;color:var(--textColor);fill:var(--textColor);opacity:1}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F._2UlgIO1LIFVpT30ItAtPfb{--textColor:var(--newRedditTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor);--textColorHover:var(--newRedditTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColorShaded80)}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:active,._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:hover{color:var(--textColorHover);fill:var(--textColorHover)}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:disabled,._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F[data-disabled],._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F[disabled]{opacity:.5;cursor:not-allowed} The Roman legions utilized a more flexible battlefield strategy, with smaller units able to move independently. Also note that the Roman soldiers begain carrying several javlins. suited for fighting in a coherent legionary formation, since it's considerably That meant phalanxes were more restricted in the ground they could traverse. You can look at Heraclea, Asculum, Cynoscephalae, Magnesia and Pydna. The spanish style gladius came late in the Republic. IIRC, some contemporary descriptions of legions in His army was never a phalanx army armed with the sarissa. So no, the Romans could not get past the spears of the phalangites (question for Greek experts--can you still call a Hellenistic phalangite a hoplite? Lighter armed enemies, But a Marian legion (in cohorts) could break itself up into sizable chunks to outmanoeuvre the phalanx. Web. Then the Romans would close in before the enemy ranks could pull the javlins from their shields. These classes were better distinguished by age with the velite light infantry being late teens, the hastati being 20 somethings, principes being 30 somethings and triari being in their forties. Two of the qualities that he brings … here's the link: Typical Greek armies always had light infantry attached. In contrast, a phalanx only really works when the entire army is in one cohesive formation. Keeping the formation intact was the hardest and most important thing in a phalanx. This did not necessarily mean numerical superiority, just a superior number of tactical groups of soldiers that could be repositioned on the fly, to exploit the breaks in formation that would inevitably occur from phalanxes constantly re-orienting to face a more agile enemy. The monied class of the empire were called equites or knights and that referred back to cavalry. Each legion contained 60 centuries headed by a centurion. And, unlike a phalanx, a legion had considerable ability to turn while maintaining it's unit cohesion. The javelins thrown by the maniples were also an effective formation breaking tool used to lessen the impact of enemy charges or create holes to exploit with their own charge. Several light throwing spears, and a short heavier model for charging with. .c_dVyWK3BXRxSN3ULLJ_t{border-radius:4px 4px 0 0;height:34px;left:0;position:absolute;right:0;top:0}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:start;justify-content:flex-start;margin-top:32px}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3 ._33jgwegeMTJ-FJaaHMeOjV{border-radius:9001px;height:32px;width:32px}._1OQL3FCA9BfgI57ghHHgV3 ._1wQQNkVR4qNpQCzA19X4B6{height:16px;margin-left:8px;width:200px}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin:12px 0}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx ._29TSdL_ZMpyzfQ_bfdcBSc{-ms-flex:1;flex:1}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx .JEV9fXVlt_7DgH-zLepBH{height:18px;width:50px}._39IvqNe6cqNVXcMFxFWFxx ._3YCOmnWpGeRBW_Psd5WMPR{height:12px;margin-top:4px;width:60px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN{height:18px;margin-bottom:4px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._2E9u5XvlGwlpnzki78vasG{width:230px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN.fDElwzn43eJToKzSCkejE{width:100%}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._2kNB7LAYYqYdyS85f8pqfi{width:250px}._2iO5zt81CSiYhWRF9WylyN._1XmngqAPKZO_1lDBwcQrR7{width:120px}._3XbVvl-zJDbcDeEdSgxV4_{border-radius:4px;height:32px;margin-top:16px;width:100%}._2hgXdc8jVQaXYAXvnqEyED{animation:_3XkHjK4wMgxtjzC1TvoXrb 1.5s ease infinite;background:linear-gradient(90deg,var(--newCommunityTheme-field),var(--newCommunityTheme-inactive),var(--newCommunityTheme-field));background-size:200%}._1KWSZXqSM_BLhBzkPyJFGR{background-color:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetBackgroundColor);border-radius:4px;padding:12px;position:relative;width:auto} Cavalry was unusual in Greek fighting before the era of Macedonian ascendancy. Lighter than phalanxes in several senses. However, their back and sides were completely exposed. action spoke of them as giant stabbing machines." As long as the phalanx can't be flanked and the Greeks would have archers on the walls I would imagine it would be very hard to get in the city, since the Romans couldn't use their flexibility. ._12xlue8dQ1odPw1J81FIGQ{display:inline-block;vertical-align:middle} The phalanx (Ancient Greek: φάλαγξ, Modern Greek: φάλαγγα, phālanga; plural phalanxes or phalanges; Ancient and Modern Greek: φάλαγγες, phālanges) is a rectangular mass military formation, usually composed entirely of heavy infantry armed with spears, pikes, sarissas, or similar weapons.The term is particularly (and originally) used to describe the use of this formation in Ancient Greek warfare, … horse is actually used in Greek names and generally understood as denoting a Against legions, however, the mobility issues as well as the general unwieldiness of the Macedonian lance were exposed. Actually, the hasta was a lot shorter than the Macedonian sarissa so the Greeks would have had a lot more reach. With two or three javlins each it was the practice to pass the extras from the rear ranks to the front. The Roman soldiers at first were forced backwards but they rapidly improvised by retreating to uneven ground and organized successful counter attacks into the gaps in the Macedonian formation caused by the unevenness. All rights Reserved. The Century was both usefull for additional battlefield flexibility, and for policing bandits, pirates, or counter insurrgency. In celebration of the book, please leave a comment detailing what you think is a classic legion vs phalanx battle. They like running into The Romans would be almost unnerved by this experience but would typically stand up to the assault. Publication. Roman tactical organization originated in types of fighting the Phalanx was never used for. It was standard. Is this an accurate way as well?It seems effective to keep their spears busy while someone else breaks them.Vs phalanx._3bX7W3J0lU78fp7cayvNxx{max-width:208px;text-align:center} Fairly let usually lighter armed enemies try to penetrate arguably the heaviest infantry formation every. The phalanx (Ancient Greek: φάλαγξ; plural phalanxes or phalanges, φάλαγγες, phalanges) was a rectangular mass military formation, usually composed entirely of heavy infantry armed with spears, pikes, sarissas, or similar pole weapons.The term is particularly used to describe the use of this formation in Ancient Greek warfare, although the ancient Greek writers used it to also describe any massed … Added to these were officers. in their lighter, Greek forms. Despite the war - … If a gap opened the more flexible Roman formations and command structure could take advantage of the momentary 'flanks'. javelins, some heavier." Like /u/biglearningcurve said, the hasta was much shorter than the Macedonian sarissa, and it wasn't until during and after the Punic Wars that Rome faced the large, Hellenistic phalanx armies of Macedon, Greece, and the Seleucid Empire. However, maniple applied to more than one group of men. Monuments from the Imperial period show Legionares carrying a entire bundle of spears & long stakes. I'm just wondering how that scenario would play out. In the accounts i have read it seems to end in a draw. Remove Ads Advertisement . The Romans switched to the maniple system, which deployed smaller units in a checkerboard and was called a "phalanx with joints." preceding years. Phalanxes were horrifically slow to reposition on the battlefield, and could never mount an attack that their opponents could not refuse. If the Legion was well prepared extra wood stakes would be cut for this purpose as well. The censor determined the economic class of Roman citizens and one consequence of this was the classifying of infantry as velites, hastati, principes and triari. Attempting to re-orient to face the flanking force simply presented the flank to the force posturing near what used to be the front. Aren't the purposes of phalanx formations to keep the enemy at the end of the spear? ._33axOHPa8DzNnTmwzen-wO{display:block;padding:0 16px;width:100%}.isNotInButtons2020 ._33axOHPa8DzNnTmwzen-wO{font-size:14px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:.5px;line-height:32px;text-transform:uppercase} Author: Graham Wrightson. Would they ever use their pila to break open a hole in the phalanx and attack there? Myke Cole’s biography is diverse and he brings that diversity into the book. Remember, half of your body was being protected by the men to your right. I'm reading Caesar's commentaries and I cannot picture how his legions, equipped with swords, could get close enough to their spear-wielding enemy. Myke Cole uses six battles where the two fighting systems clashed, along with the history surrounding them, to discuss this. work in close quarters. Cohort: six centuries or a total of 480 fighting men. Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). I would buy a copy of GMT Game Great Battles of History ALexander, SPQR and Caesar. formation. This was comprised of ten maniples of 420 soldiers each. The Romans, with their flexible formations would be able to utilize the terrain to get around and inside the reach of the spears, so they could fight one on one. Sort by. showers of javelins still less. But each of these could be said to have one maniple of triari, one maniple of principes and one of hastati. They were anchored by the phalanx, but they integrated light infantry and cavalry into a cohesive and flexible whole. After suffering a series of defeats culminating in the surrender of an ent… Or would they ever attempt to flank with missile troops to attack their backs? A medium cavalry man, who had to get close enough to stab with a spear or, worse, a sword, would have serious trouble charging the front of an intact Phalanxes had mobility problems even ._1x9diBHPBP-hL1JiwUwJ5J{font-size:14px;font-weight:500;line-height:18px;color:#ff585b;padding-left:3px;padding-right:24px}._2B0OHMLKb9TXNdd9g5Ere-,._1xKxnscCn2PjBiXhorZef4{height:16px;padding-right:4px;vertical-align:top}._1LLqoNXrOsaIkMtOuTBmO5{height:20px;padding-right:8px;vertical-align:bottom}.QB2Yrr8uihZVRhvwrKuMS{height:18px;padding-right:8px;vertical-align:top}._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0{font-size:14px;font-weight:500;line-height:18px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 ._1LLqoNXrOsaIkMtOuTBmO5,._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 ._2B0OHMLKb9TXNdd9g5Ere-,._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 ._1xKxnscCn2PjBiXhorZef4,._3w_KK8BUvCMkCPWZVsZQn0 .QB2Yrr8uihZVRhvwrKuMS{fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)} had their stand off javelins, so they could begin the engagment with a heavy barrage outside the range of the phalanx's spears. Defeating phalanxes in the game typically involved positioning sufficient force near their front while moving to threaten their flanks, before charging into their flanks. What do you think on Phalanx vs Cohort which was better/stronger? Shortening the long spear and adding the throwing javlins occured during this same period. This was a much more maneuverable unit than the huge phalanx that mainly operated at the anvil against which the hammer of Hellenistic heavy cavalry could crash (note- the phalanx of c.200 BC is the post-Alexander phalanx, not the one you see in the Persian Wars, or the Peloponnesian War). Or, sit the phalanx in one spot and All these factors would work against the cohesion needed by the phalanx to be truly effective. Crete produced sling men Most of its vast docking bays were deserted, and the Imperium's inability to replicate its ancient technologies resulted in even minor damage creating signific… 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If I'm reading the dates correctly the manipular Legion had developed either just before or during the early days of the Roman Republic. This book is exactly what I expected when I picked it up, a fun opportunity to geek out about to technical aspects of ancient warfare, in this case the relative merits of the Macedonian Phalanx vs the Roman Legion. Phalanx vs Legion : Battle of Cynoscephalae July 2020 The roman victory in the battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the second macedonian war between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon. Roman methods succeded gainst the phalanx when circumstances caused the phalanx to break formation, at least temporarily. For more information about the Phalanx versus infantry debate I would recommend that you read The Art of War by Machiavelli it discusses in great depth and detail benefits of Pike Men (phalanx) and Shield bearers (cohorts) and argues the point that the most effective armies are composed of a combination of the two as GRUPI has suggested. Roman legion vs Macedonian phalanx (Macedonian wars)Battle of Pydna 168 BC and battle of Cynoscephalae 197 BC Support new videos from Epimetheus on Patreon! the lance points and Rome conquered the Greek world". .s5ap8yh1b4ZfwxvHizW3f{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);padding-top:5px}.s5ap8yh1b4ZfwxvHizW3f._19JhaP1slDQqu2XgT3vVS0{color:#ea0027} That would be the apogee of the fight because that first shock would leave many of the Gaullic swords bent sideways making them harder to use even not considering the difficulty of using them in close quarters. The light formations were also used for the small prelimnary battles, or the 'mop up' campaign after the main battle. Each legion had 300 cavalry. Maniple (Latin: manipulus, lit. They were basically light lancers or swordmen, which was not an optimal configuration. Also, unlike hollywood movies, not all fights happened on endless plains with absolutely no natural obstacles - rock formations, marshes, shallow rivers, etc. The successors tended to ignore this, devoting all of their energy (following the death in battle of Antigonus I Monophthalmus, who had a pretty damn good understanding of Alexander's tactical principles) to boosting the size of the phalanx to simply outnumber their opponents. really heavy based of operations; sort of mobile forts, which could serve When an engagement occurred, it would always be on the terms of the opposing army. 90% Upvoted. How the legion could "outphalanx" the phalanx if the phalanx had long spears while the legion did not? Their use of light skirmisher was, as mentioned, typical. best. 2020 StrategyWorld.com. At Pydna, as well, it was a force of Greek allies who held the center against the Macedonian advance, preventing the Macedonians from breaking through and allowing the Romans to divert troops to the flanks. "Phalanx vs Legion: Battle of Cynoscephalae." But, they were far The Macedonian phalanx took the concept of cohesive group warfare to another level with the sarissa armed phalangites and under Philip and Alexander, steamrolled every opponent in front of them. From Maniple to Cohort. for centuries. Romans have good staying power so meeting 2 phalanxes with 1 legio unit will work for a while but only while overall army numbers are similar or the romans have a morale/experience advantage. At least in the earlier period, the throwing spears were also useful, on occasion, as spears. The first cohort was double strength in terms of manpower and generally held the best fighting men. 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